Added: Aug 21, 2008
From: LaneCh
Duration: 7:18
This clip is posted with permission from Ligonier Ministries. To purchase this message, please visit http://www.ligonier.org"...It's a strategy of unbelief. The 'minister' wants to grow his church, the 'minister' wants to see success, and so he's looking for all these programs and all these techniques to get people to come in... But he never goes over the bridge and gets to the Word. If you want a power in your Church, be an expository preacher; preach the Word because that's where the Spirit is. Isn't that God's strategy? If we believe God's strategy, we're going to preach the Word."- R.C. SproulI think the movement is falsely so called. If it were really "seeker-sensitive" it would be sensitive to those who have been regenerated by God's Spirit and are actively seeking Him.
Channel: Education
Tags: bill creek driven hybels life newsprings purpose saddleback willow
Rating: 4.64 (77 ratings) Views: 18091' favoriteCount='150 Comments: 44
zangtangerang Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - Universl meaning all Christians, right? Not all humans.
cavies4ever Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - Awesome stuff. Well said, RC.Watered down church with no substance is sad.How much sadder for the leaders who don't preach it! How much more sadder for the ones who remain lost.
TheWretchthatIam Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - Spot on. PREACH THE WORD! Love it. Love it.
dkshotwell Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - Lane. again another great video, especially since its Sproul and videos of him seem to be in short supply,(could just be my not knowing where to look), all you can get from him would be awesome. thanks
LaneCh Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - If you go to Ligonier's site, you can find videos of him that they post daily. They're only streaming, though.
garansbarans Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - Excellent. We've sacrificed Truth on the altar of "getting along with people so they like us". Everyone will hold hands and sing Kumbaya in (a) spirit, but rarely in Truth, as our Lord requires (John 4). Had the early Church held such views of God and Scripture, it would probably have been absorbed into Rome's pantheon of religions and never made it past that first century.More videos, Mr. Lane, more such. Thank you!
JEFFSCOTTK1 Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - What an utterly appalling explanation of something he does not understand at all. Calling unbelievers "tares" sown in among the "wheat" is stupid. This is the ultimate result of hyper Calvinism which doesn't give a crap about lost people and taking the gospel to them. If they never hear the Gospel at church, how can people get saved? The NT argues for the collective witness of God's people. Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. This kind of crap makes me sad to be a calvinist.
LaneCh Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - Um... Jesus calls them wheat among tares:But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? (cont...)
LaneCh Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. (Mat 13:25-30)Are you sure that you're a Calvinist? They usually know their Bibles.
infinitelink Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - He didn't call the openly unbelieving tares, if you just listened; biblically point is that some look like wheat, but aren't; these are called "tares" in the Bible, because tares & wheat are almost indistinguishable. The lesson is that though the gospel is to always be preached, evangelism is specifically to take place outside the context of the assembly; the assembly is for God's Worship, & sheep feeding, not marketing to unbelievers. Hyper Calvinism says nobody should evangelize; this didn't.
LaneCh Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - ...and do you hold that these men and the person who posts these videos are hyper-calvinists?
churchofgrace Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - The first seeker one must be sensitive to and do all that is necessary to not offend is God. He is the one seeking and not men. If men evidence genuine seeking it is only because God is first seeking them.
infinitelink Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - A hypercalvinist is indeed in the heresy, that we need not preach the gospel because God predestines men. These men don't teach or demonstrate such; they teach preaching the gospel is vital, not only out of loving obedience towards Jesus our Lord who sent us to do that ("[...]teaching them to obey everything [...]"), but also because it's through the [lit.] "foolishness of the thing preached" (usus. rendered "of preaching"), by which it says God is pleased to save, to "call out" those He chose!
LaneCh Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - Great. Just making sure. Take care.
ruselling Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - Read 2 Tim 4: 3-5 It explains why this seeker movement is present today. It's just a sign of the times.
jeffpoet Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - RC IS RIGHT!
dinevski3 Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - RC is right because when you check him out within Scripture, you'll know that he is right.
JEFFSCOTTK1 Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. I don't see the church doing that today. Especially these men on the video. I hear no compassion in their voices for the people that Jesus died for. It's sad really
JEFFSCOTTK1 Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - So what do you do with the fact that Paul's evangelism meetings got so large in Ephesus, that they had to meet daily in the town lecture hall of Tyrannus (we know from archeology that it could seat about 1000). It says that everyone in that region heard the gospel. The math on that is nearly 300 new people a day hearing the Gospel for the first time. You have no scriptural precedent for that dumb idea that evangelism should not happen in the assembly. That's nonsense.
JEFFSCOTTK1 Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - I'm curious what you do with Paul's command to Titus that the slaves should in every way make the teaching about God our Savior attractive? Tit 2:10, Also, why did Jesus preach application based messages? Why did he and Paul teach topically not verse by verse, and why were they so obsessed with seeking and saving that which was lost? I just truly feel sorry that the modern church has rejected evangelism. They have a theology of evangelsm, but don't actually do it. Then criticize others who do.
JEFFSCOTTK1 Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - "scratching people where they itch" is a total parody of the seeker sensitive movement. THis is nothing more than a caricature of the philosophy. The church is suffering from almost no conversion growth among main line denominations like this. The pharisees always have hated church growth because it typically means kingdom growth, and a challenge to their man made traditions. I feel like I've had a close encounter of the pharisaical kind after watching this. so sad
LaneCh Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - I'm on a trip right now so I don't have time to point out your numerous straw men. Perhaps later.
dabearsfan31 Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - Jeffscott: biblical illiteracy is at an all time high now because the church has been more concerned with wooing converts than making disciples. Your arguments are rooted in bitterness toward their disagreement with a philosophy that you apparently buy into. Jesus said to make disciples, not converts. If you look at the evangelical church honestly, you can't help but see that these men are absolutely right. Christians are seeking power; just look at Lakeland: no Bible, lots of emotion.
dabearsfan31 Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - Jeffscott, why are you opposed to the idea of preaching the Word of God? Are you a Christian, or just someone who hates Christian truth?
zangtangerang Says:
Aug 21, 2008 - The "catholic" church, the real one, is the universal church, yes, but not in the sense that all humans are saved, nor in the sense of the Roman Catholic Church. It is the church all over the earth, that all Christians are part of. Know what I mean? It is Christians. The true Church.