Added: Jul 26, 2008
From: SKYSPLASH
Duration: 7:59
TO PLAY FULL DEBATE TAP ON LINK BELOWhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xf5mkZz3kY&feature=PlayList&p=075879A54F3637B9&index=0&playnext=1Website for X 7th Day Adventist belowhttp://www.apologeticsindex.org/s18.htmlDr. Walter Martin Debates 7th Day Adventist on Teachings that Conflict with Christianity. The seventh day adventist have revised some of thier beliefs since the airing of this video.Walter Martins site Belowhttp://www.waltermartin.com/realaudio.htmlWalter Ralston Martin (September 10, 1928 -- June 26, 1989), was an American Evangelical minister, author, and Christian apologist who founded the Christian Research Institute in 1960 as a para-church ministry specializing as a clearing-house of information in both general Christian apologetics and in countercult apologetics.Continuing educationMartin's tertiary education began with his brief enrollment at Adelphi University (September 1946-January 1947), followed by attendance at Washington Bible College in 1948. Martin finally settled on taking a degree at Shelton College where he was enrolled from 1949 until graduation with a B.A. in 1951. He further obtained a Bachelor of Religious Education degree in 1952 from Shelton College. One of his best known lecturers at Shelton College was James Oliver Buswell.In 1956 he received a Master of Arts degree by coursework in religious education at New York University. Martin then proceeded as a candidate for the Doctor of Education degree at New York University. He subsequently obtained a Ph.D. in 1976 from California Coast University (which was known as California Western University from its founding in 1973.The Rest of the Article belowhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Martin
Channel: People
Tags: adventist ankerberg day dr. ellen john martin seventh walter white
Rating: 3.67 (64 ratings) Views: 25813' favoriteCount='94 Comments: 1825
fantomroyale Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - "Vicar of Christ... Title used almost exclusively of the Bishop of Rome as successor of Peter and, therefore, the one in the Church who particularly takes the place of Christ; but used also of bishops in general & even of priests. First used by the Roman Synod of A.D. 495 to refer to Pope Gelasius; more commonly in Roman curial usage to refer to the Bishop of Rome during the pontificate of Pope Eugene III (1145-1153)..."
fantomroyale Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) asserted explicitly that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ; further defined at the Council of Florence in the Decree for the Greeks (1439) and Vatican Council I in Pastor Aerternus (1870). The Second Vatican Council, in Lumen Gentium , n.27, calls bishops in general "vicars and legates of Christ." All bishops are vicars of Christ for their local churches in their ministerial functions as priest, prophet, and king, as the Pope is for the universal church..."
holysaturnius Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - I never said that all the world would be christian.I dont believe that sunday laws are the mark of the beast remember.What I was saying is that for the world to accept sunday sacredness the world would have to be christain and clairly it is not.Also the bible does say the mark is worldwide"he causeth ALL to recieve the mark"save those who have the seal of God"The Holy Spirit".
holysaturnius Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - Vicar of Christ does not add to 666.Vicarus fillii dei means Vicar of the Son of God.When you are adding numbers to letters every letter counts.
holysaturnius Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - How do you know that Christendom everywhere would have followed suit if America had passed a National Sunday law?You sure like to speculate as if its fact.
fantomroyale Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - actually the whole end time prophecies center around christianity & believers of YHVH GOD! SDAs don't believe that in order for the mark of the beast to happen, the whole world will be christian. since you imply that you do not believe the world would be christian either, how does GOD determine whether you have the seal or the mark? also the NT christians spread rapidly without the aide of modern technology & transportation.
fantomroyale Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - not every letter in that "name or title" has a numerical value so not every letter counts!
fantomroyale Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - me speculate, look who's talking. was it not you who speculated that Christians couldn't have spread the gospel throughout the world in the 1800s because of lack of modern technology & transportation? was it not you who assumed that it would be impossible to impose sunday law throughout the whole world. assuming that everyone had to be christianized for it to take effect?you also implied that christians then were less than they are now.
fantomroyale Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - it's not hard to imagine christendom following suit since after all, most christians have nothing against sunday sacredness! people once thought that papacy & protestantism would never hold hands, yet EGW prophecied they would & look at today. religion & politics are intermingling. what power had a religious as well as political power - the papacy! how many leaders attending the last pope's funeral? how influential is the papacy!in all, SDA interpretation has been shown to be more plausible!
holysaturnius Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - 1:There were less Christians in 1886 than there are today.2:It was impossible for the gosple to have been spred to all living people then as even with all our modern technology we still havent done it.3:Why would a muslim country inforce a sunday law on its people.
fantomroyale Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - 1. your argument about less christianity is irrelevant since "mark of the beast" doesn't require the whole world to be christians.2. you assume it is "impossible" without modern technology. it wasn't a problem in the NT, why would it be a problem now. the reason has nothing to do with technology. how many christians are actually spreading the gospel today? rapid growth in NT times did not involve technology!3. argument is same as #1.
art2ken Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - The Bible speaks of an end time scenario where the issue revolves around the violation of the whole 10 com. I cant find evidence where men will be divided into 2 sides basically because of the 4th com. I believe that God would have given ample warnings in the bible about such an event but there is none.
gnmtyf Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - art2ken - totally correct. Revelation tells us what the end time issues will be ...The WHOLE law of God AND the Testimony of Jesus as well; not just the 4'th commandment.And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments (plural) of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
art2ken Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - Let us suppose that a worldwide Sunday law is passed. The question would be = Will God suddenly be inclined to mark Sunday-keepers as unfit for heaven? Anybody who understands how Jesus saves knows that no amount of sin/power is enough to separate from the love of God.
art2ken Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - So, whats with this Sunday = mark of the beast THEORY? Even if it happens, its objective would be no more than to mislead from Gods saving power.
art2ken Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - EGW states that = no lips can utter that they are saved...This sounds sincere, but sincerely wrong i think. Its only true to those who dont understand the message of the Gospel of Christ. The Bible intends that anyone who trusts in Jesus for their salvation must believe that He truly saves them. Maybe EGW has not encountered this truth yet & therefor taught a wrong and FAITHLESS teaching being a prophet and all. Man...
art2ken Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - Im not saying that all who believe that they are saved are truly saved,(specially nowadays when its very easy to claim/profess christianity). But its not right to teach to be faithless in Christ's saving power. Not to mention the IJ which cements this idea. If youll look at it closely, EGWs teaching another kind of gospel. One that is "by works" and faithless.
spooteronicus Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - If keeping/not-keeping the Sabbath can cause us to be sealed or marked then how does our relationship with Jesus factor in? Can I be a sabbath-keeper who does not have a personal relationship with Jesus and still be saved? (take the Jews for instance, who believe in God and keep the Sabbath) Of course not, so it is obvious that a relationship with Jesus is the thrust of the gospel.
spooteronicus Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - It would be impossible for us to please God by our own works so sabbath observance would undeniably have to come as a result of a relationship with Jesus. So the question becomes, "is a saving realtionship with Jesus enough for a person to have the seal of God"? OR is the person also required to keep the Sabbath to have that seal .. grace + works? My Bible says by grace alone. Certainly works do follow and show our relationship is genuine.
spooteronicus Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - But to make those "good works" a requirement instead of a result of salvation is not Biblical. We all know that no good works are possible unless we already have God's Spirit. And if we already have His Spirit when we became "saved" (or accepted Jesus if you will), then where does the Bible say we must also keep the Sabbath to "get the seal"? which we already have because God already approved of us when He gave us His Spirit when we accepted Christ.
spooteronicus Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - Do we now have 2 requirements 1 for accepting Christ and receiving the Spirit and 1 for getting sealed? Is it not the same Holy Spirit that we already have dwelling in us? If that is not already being sealed I don;t know what is. But to take a single commandment and say that perfect obedience of that one commandment is the seal of God? I just do not see that as tthe main thrust of the gospel or the end time events of earth's history.
art2ken Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - Usually there are only the SDAs and the Mainstream christians. But now, there is this group which holds the truths from both sides, but is also able to discard the errors from either. I find them very rare and very precious.
gnmtyf Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - Amen
spapuchi07 Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - I'm SDA. For thirteen Years. I love Jesus. Jesus is lord. He is the creator. The thirteen years I've been SDA i have only heard one or two things about EllEn G WHite. SDA teaching is biblical and we dont rely on Ellen G white for teaching. We rely on the Bible the word of GOD. God Bless you all. I love you!!!
fantomroyale Says:
Jul 26, 2008 - actually records show that "vicarius filii dei" has been used by the pontiffs. many witnesses have seen it worn! the argument you use is unreliable! it may not be an official title, but it has been a title used by the popes and have been seen on mitres.without a doubt the papal power fits all the characteristics of the little horn and beasts!