Added: Nov 18, 2008
From: LaneCh
Duration: 6:54
This is a video that contrasts the historic Protestant view of justification with Rome's. The teacher is the late John Gerstner.
Channel: People
Tags: catholic faith gerstener john justification roman
Rating: 4.67 (12 ratings) Views: 1568' favoriteCount='29 Comments: 22
ReformedLou Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - Great food for thought. And now I know from where R.C. got his lecturing style.
LaneCh Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - I recognized that, too. R.C. sounds just like him even with the way he emphasizes words.
srprimeaux Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - Wow! Now, THAT is what I call doctrine! Amen!
prchdaword Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - Faith = union with Christ = Justification + works. That is BEAUTIFULLY put!!!!
CanCatholic Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - He misrepresents the Catholic doctrine on justification. The actual doctrine is that man is saved by grace alone. Not faith + works-->justification. From this grace comes faith. From faith comes works.
LaneCh Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - I assume you are speaking of Roman Catholicism. If not, please correct me. If so, I must say that what you've presented is not RC teaches. Search Droakely1689 and watch some of his debates. RC's can tell you themselves what they believe the Gospel to be.
CanCatholic Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - The fact that a Catholic believes something to be Catholic doctrine does not make it Catholic doctrine. The doctrine is that man is justified by the grace of God alone. We must cooperate with this grace by faith in Christ and from this faith flows works. Works do not justify us before God. At the same time it is false to say that we are justified by faith alone.
LaneCh Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - The Bible teaches that we are justified by faith without works (Rom. 4). To say that we are justified by anything but faith is not the Gospel. Even your statement, "Works do not justify us before God. At the same time it is false to say that we are justified by faith alone." violates the law of non-contradiction. How can "works not justify us" and "it's be false to say we're justified by faith alone"?
CanCatholic Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - I think we have a misunderstanding in terms. It is more appropriate to say that we are saved by grace alone. We are justified by faith. Works necessarily flow from this faith.Anyway, the position that Luther rebelled against was not truly the Catholic position. Luther argued for the Catholic (and Biblical) position that was not being tought by priests at the time. We don't use the words saved by 'faith alone', but the doctrines are remarkably similar (Luther's and Catholic).
LaneCh Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - Martin Luther was rebelling against the Catholic position of works plus faith for salvation. It's why the term SOLA is so offensive to Roman Catholics.
reformedcalvinist216 Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - quote from cancatholic: "I think we have a misunderstanding in terms. It is more appropriate to say that we are saved by grace alone. We are justified by faith. Works necessarily flow from this faith."do you realize that the council of Trent has placed an anathema upon ANYONE who actually believes this?
CanCatholic Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - CANON XXIV.-If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema. This is the closest thing I could find to what you said. Works that flow from faith are meritorious. They strengthen our relationship with God, but they do not justify us. In this sense works are essentially prayers.
LaneCh Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - CANON XXXII.-If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose ...
LaneCh Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - [Page 49] living member he is, does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life,-if so be, however, that he depart in grace,-and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema. (Session 6 of Trent)
LaneCh Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema. (Session 6 of Trent)It seems that many Arminians and RC's aren't really different in that respect.
pimpfreeze Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - Paul says in Romans 3:31- 31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.James 2:19-26- 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Bhanna4d Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - Wow John Girstner. Impressive.
13thof12 Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - Genius!
cinderella425 Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - That was wonderful...I was especially impressed at how he pointed out the truth of what many evangelicals preach: faith = justification - works. Praise God for this man's boldness in preaching the truth!
RUSavedByGraceAlone Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - What is the name of this video? I want to get it.
LaneCh Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - I'm not sure what the name of the video is, but if you send this clip to Ligonier(.)org and ask, they should be able to help you.
CAndiron Says:
Nov 18, 2008 - Wow- no danger of falling asleep in that class!