Cosmology Quest - Critique of Cosmology - Pt1 of 4 Videos

themadhair Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - "There is no direct indication that they are actually at their proposed red shift distances." Factually incorrect -- gravitational lensing has confirmed the distances of many quasars. If the video really wants to challenge universal expansion then it has a lot of explaining to do given that using methods like Tully-Fischer to put distances on spiral galaxies has strongly confirmed Hubble's original prediction. Doing a lot of talking but no evidence.

themadhair Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - As regards needing metaphysical explanations for them it is clear that this video is twenty years behind the times. There are questions to be answered certainly, but it is clear that the proposed explanation given in the video of quasars being relatively close objects is fine and dandy until you realise that it bears no relation to observational reality. But I freely admit that I am biased and I show undue favouritism towards models that fit available evidence.

themadhair Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - No offence to Arp, his ideas were far out in the 60's and they have been systematically battered by observational evidence from then till now. The development of Tully-Fischer is enough on its own to batter his ideas regarding quasars out of the ball park given that spiral galaxies with similar red shifting are calculated to be just as far away. He may be many things but a modern Galileo he ain't. Give him a fiddle string.

themadhair Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - I have left my strongest grievance to last. The makers of this video owe Dr. Rubin an apology. The video deliberately misrepresents her work which was concerned with the rotation curves of spiral galaxies contrary to the claims made in this video. The irony is that (cosmologystatement . org) considers dark matter to be a big bang 'fudge factor' -- guess what Dr Rubin's work led to? Why it lead to the widespread acceptance of dark matter.

themadhair Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Wonder how that little point was missed? Also worth pointing out that Dr. Rubin's work never once invoked big bang theory. Wonder why the video never made that explicit? This little economic retelling of history made me feel sick due to the deliberate callous deception involved.I may watch the others if my brain feels another euthanasiac streak. This is dire stuff.This debate must happen in the scientific literature -- not with appeals to the ignorant layperson.

Percy203 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - contrary to popular belief, the Big Bang doesn't say anything about the origin of the universe.BBT excels at explaining how the universe evolved from an incredibly hot, dense volume about 13.7 billion earth-time years ago. But, it is silent on the 'origin' of that volume. It also does not assert the universe is finite in age or size, merely the observationally accessible slice.

Percy203 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - I think that using gravitational lensing to prove things like that is still questionable. Gravity can not even explain how these galaxies have the morphology they do.You need to watch part two of this documentary, where they explain what the alternative viewpoint is. Its called plasma cosmology, and i suggest that you familiarise youself with some plasma cosmology material before getting too angry at this video.

Percy203 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - The debate is going on, there are plenty of plasma cosmology papers that do away with gravity based big bang cosmology. Some are listed here; soundintent DOT com/the IEEE releases a lot of plasma cosmology material in their 'transactions on plasma science' journal evey year. there are plenty more there if your interested in it.

themadhair Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - "The debate is going on, there are plenty of plasma cosmology papers that do away with gravity based big bang cosmology."And I do read them. But until some serious overhaul brings the plasma models into agreement with COBE and WMAP they will remain fringe -- and it has to be emphasised that the COBE blackbody results and background radiation variances were predicted beforehand by big bang cosmology. There has been nothing in the same predictive league for plasma that I have read.

themadhair Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - "I think that using gravitational lensing to prove things like that is still questionable."How so? The result being confirmed (quasars at large distance) is independent of big bang assumptions so I don't see why you object to this."Gravity can not even explain how these galaxies have the morphology they do."Not sure what this claim based on. Some of the latest theoretical models are in surprising agreement with observation - (arxiv . org/ps/0712 . 4391).

themadhair Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - "contrary to popular belief, the Big Bang doesn't say anything about the origin of the universe."Agreed. Maybe a similar theoretical split to evolution and abiogenesis?"It also does not assert the universe is finite in age or size, merely the observationally accessible slice."True. I am intrigued by the slingshot model (arxiv . org/abs/hep-th/0611246v4) but this seems years away from experimental testing.

themadhair Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - "i suggest that you familiarise youself with some plasma cosmology material before getting too angry at this video."What got my goat was the factually incorrect assertions the video made -- particularly regarding Dr. Rubin's work. Having a debate between competing theories is what drives science. Producing videos/statements full of misinformation isn't. EG: the cosmologystatement you linked to asserts that big bang relies on dark matter. WTF??

Percy203 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - "But until some serious overhaul brings the plasma models into agreement with COBE and WMAP they will remain fringe"That is true, they are fringe at the moment, but not necessarily incorrect, i should add.Plasma cosmology is still in its infancy, there is still much to lean about how plasma characteristics such as the Z-pinch and double layers affect the cosmos. The role of charge separation in space is still not fully understood due to its very complex and chaotic nature

TheGodofReason Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - I think that the notion of the Big Bang as constituting the whole universe is naive. A better explanation is that the Big Bang is a local structure (if unimaginably vast) in an ongoing, hierarchical universe. (see my vid "The Thinking Man's Universe" -Mike

soupdragon42 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Big Bang Cosmology is little more than a joke, and yet it still dominates the text books! The Peer Review system amounts to no more than an intellectual mafia, jealously guarding their funding! It's outrageous

BinaryReader Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - maybe, but, there is alot of evidence that supports it. Perhaps in a 100 years time mankind might have a better suggestion, but, until proven wrong, its the only "close to correct" thing we have. Id like to hear your ideas on where everything came from.

ajmoir Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - It is not close to correct. The correct answer is we don't know.

BinaryReader Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - well, fair comment, but, if im going to believe in something, i think ill go with the big bang idea. At least until its proven incorrect. Despite this video's claims, i feel that theres too much evidence that supports the Big Bang idea. Well, perhaps when the CERN Hadron collider is up and running, we may learn something that either supports the Big Bang, or rules it out entirely. Im going to go with..."Current observation says we are close to right. But we may be wrong"

fabbio8888 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - The very point is well exposed at the beginning: a growing number of astronomers doubt the Big Bang, at least the way it's told to us.And it's so strange that comments do not focus on the fact that this theory is propaganded as true and proved.Evidences? Of course. But let's talk about the evidences of falsifications: dark energy, CBM flatness, RedShift and oh, I still wait for a decent inflactionary theory. We keep the eyes on the future to avoid admitting mass mistakes. Not scientific.

theone6837 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Blah, blah, blah, you lost me at 8:50 - corruption in astronomy. Corruption is everywhere. It´s in everything. It´s hampered down everything. We have to stop it/them. Do what you can. The Illuminati/masons/others have infiltrated all aspects of our society.

cobu2002 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - see 'cosmic bubbles/mother rock'

cobu2002 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - see 'cosmic bubbles/mother rock'

cobu2002 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - see 'cosmic bubbles/mother rock'

cobu2002 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - see 'cosmic bubbles/mother rock'

cobu2002 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - 'cosmic bubbles/mother rock'