Melissa Harris Lacewell and Gloria Steinem debate part1 Videos

knowyourenemy1 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - I am open to a discussion -- please, cite the sources that support your argument that white feminists have *always* linked their struggle to that of people of color? Give me authors? Name activists? Books? Anything... I study U.S. history... I see no evidence whatsoever in U.S. history for such a broad sweeping claim.

knowyourenemy1 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - 2nd: I agree, rap artists of color are not directly *forced* into complicity in perpetuating racism/sexism/homophobia-I don't dispute that. I am simply challenging you to be open to the *possibility* that your view could be more complicated, more sophisticated when you incorporate an understanding of how institutional racism has functioned historically to limit the choices of people of color. For ex, a disproportionate number of transgender people are forced to do sex work b/c...

knowyourenemy1 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - 3rd:[cont'd] ...genderism/institutionalized transphobia & heterosexism limit their choices in jobs. The vast majority of transgender people won't be hired for middle & high income jobs as *out* transgenders because of historical, systematic prejudice against them. So would you then blame transgender people who, in the face of horrific discrimination, decide to engage in sex work, for ex, or take a role in a film that promotes negative stereotypes about transwomen & transmen just to survive?

knowyourenemy1 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - 4th: [cont'd] ...I also find it interesting that you accuse me of ethnocentrism and self-victimization... are you making an assumption about my race? There are plenty of people -- of all races -- that think like me. Some of them identify as white-antiracists... you should check their work out: Tim Wise, Molly Secours, Inga Muscio (her 2nd book), even comic artist Alison Bechdal are great places to start.

Donpopeel Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Are you talking about transgendered individuals or hermaphrodites? The transgender issue is more of a choice to alter one's sexuality than a condition that the person was born with. Some people may argue that feeling like you are born with the wrong gender is inherent, but straddling the fence(for lack of a better term) is viewed as more radical than just homosexuality by itself.

Donpopeel Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - For years the family was held together by gender roles. What peplexes me is how some liberals seem to have disdain for this precedent despite the fact that the fallout from the sexual revolution has resulted in regression, especially when it comes to the well-being of the family. We have sacrificed cohesion between men and women for so-called " new opportunities".

QueerSwede Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Love Gloria!

thirdshift47 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - I don't know because i live in the states,but how is it that Canadian's seem to think that their community realities are directly reflective of those of us here.Because to be fair,although homophobia is indeed a glaring reality,to compare homophobia--a social anxiety--to institutional forms of racism that we still contend with here is just flat out foolish.Gay acceptance in mainstream society is indeed an issue of 'rights';everything from housing to freedom itself are dire concerns for blacks.

mojosandra Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - GO STEINEM!!!!!!!! U rock, and you are a model for girls all around the world!

Qrstnce Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - hang on a second. This is indeed the reality for gays world wide. It is a life or death situation. Was it not in the U.S. where recently a boy of 15 was shot because he gave a valentine's day card to another boy? How is this not an issue? I find it very hypocritical to go on about the evils of the white man, when black men are just as ferocious when it comes to the battiman. Is this not the case? But this isn't reserved for black men. What about Eminem? He got awarded for the things he said.

Qrstnce Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Start with Germaine Greer. Who has been an avid supported of the aborgines of Australia. Then there's Gloria Steinmen herself. There's actually a video here from back in the day and she was already talking about the oppression of blacks. Then move on to Simone de Beauvoir in "The Ethics of Ambiguity" and then Naomi Wolf who has always as Marxist feminists recognized marginalization. It's interesting to note that feminists have also never excluded women, as you are attempting to do, as it MHL.

Qrstnce Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - And those are patriarchal values that are being brought into the gay community. But at one point racial minorities have to start taking responsibilities. Look at the flack that Oprah has gotten because she doesn't endorse the mysoginy og rap artists. Why? So since she's standing up for her womanhood she betrays her race? Then that's a double standard that's been inflicted upon women by black men isn't? And what's more important race of gender? Because to ask for modification is betrayal/racism.

Qrstnce Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - No, I wouldn't. But in school we do indeed learn about slavery whereas where is the gay oriented sexual education curriculm for ALL students not just one set. And yes there are ways in which trangendered inviduals feed into heterosexist and patriarchal and homphobic notions about them. Gay men are also at fault of their detriment when they feed the heterosexual male. But here's a better question for you. As a gay black man who his greater oppressor is. The white man, or the straight black man.

Qrstnce Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - And you are accusing me of only being concerned with that which concerns me individually. You dismmised the fact, didn't even take into consideration that I myself am a racial minority. You assumed that I was a white gay, never did it cross your mind that I am a racial minority. One that is treated like shit in America. I am a Latino. But that, that didn't enter your mind. You here are the one that's prejudiced. And maybe you should check that. How dare YOU tell ME what my struggle should be.

Qrstnce Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Yes. And your point is? So ok, because someone is a racial minority they should not be called on when they act evil? So basically white men should be held accountable for their crimes, but not racial minorities? Well there you go, you just acted as the white man did in terms of his justice. We know white men are evil. I've been hearing this since childhood. So what is the racial minorty male's excuse? They're supposed to be so beyond the West. So forward if it wasn't for the West's tinkering.

Qrstnce Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - And gays haven't had to shove themselves into closets in order to keep their jobs and lives? And gays have not been killed all over the world because of who they are inherently? And are gays allowed to adopt just as easily as straights? And how do people react when gays move into the neighbourhood? Excluding areas like New York or Los Angeles, what are the living conditions of gays? FEAR.

Qrstnce Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Why are my views racist and yet your want to drive away from the homophobia and mysoginy endorsed and propagated by racial minorties not considered homophobic. You care only about blacks. You don't give a damn about the gays that have been victimized because of racial minorities. And don't give me the argument of white man profit, cuz then you're saying racial minorities don't have enough of a will to break from that oppression. They must continue that prejudice as means of survival?

thirdshift47 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - I'm not going to get into a greatest victim match with you--Indeed,it takes a special kind of idiot not to be able to make rudimentary distinctions between the social maladies that blacks and gays,respectively,have suffered.And yes,there is certainly a homophobic strain in the black male community,as there are patriarchal,sexist & even fundamentalist strains.Yet,historically,an epidemic of violent gay bashing has not been a characteristic of the black male community in the US.

thirdshift47 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Indeed,you in your strangely 'essentialist'--to borrow the thirdwave feminist term--view of homosexuality,and at the same time,very socially ill-defined ,seems to forget that there is a HUGE black homosexual community(indeed,most blacks in the states know somebody that's gay).Indeed,most homophobia amongst black males is passive--whereas most black on black androphobia(in a REAL epidemic of street violence),if you will,is deadly.

thirdshift47 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Lastly,for as much as homosexuality may be a taboo in the black community here in the states(i can't speak on Canada),the Black community has,by and large and uniformly,put its voting power behind those US candidates that are generally openly supportive of gay rights and concerns.Now the 70% white majority here seems to have felt otherwise---placing their 'moral' concerns over their economic concerns,electing that great progressive champion,Bush,for a second term.LOL!!

TheHornyChihuahua Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - The only reason Steinem supported Hillary over Obama is gender, plain and simple. She's not woman enough to admit it. I love the fact the she mentioned the Hillary nutcracker as something pornographic. That's pornographic? It was a joke! This is just another example of a feminist making much ado about nothing.

seans10 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - What an exciting and sexy woman Amy Goodman is!

seans10 Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Gloria Steinem=spoiled privileged cunt.It must pain her so that most black women see themselves as having nothing in common with this lock-jawed jew princess.

dustcurrington Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - Two politically correct nutjobs butting vaginas over the relative importance of their nonsensical pet social issues. Women should have zero say in politics, and neither should any mangina who thinks women should have any say, much less be a leader. I've never met a woman with an intelligent political opinion in my life, as politics require objectivity and women have never evolved the capacity to view the world objectively, as there were never any evolutionary pressures in this direction.

katebushboi Says:

Oct 7, 2008 - The 1950's called. They want their society back.