COE vs OVETT CLASH OF TITANS 1980s BBC SPORT Videos

lufcwm Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - coe....best of the best

newromantic888 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - Deano have u seen this......if kipketer moved kike silk this man was poetry in motion. But the commitment was amazing. The self belief.

maureenOWW Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - You've got to remember that Coe was a physical freak, with an unfair advantage over all the other runners of the time. When his lung capacity and oxygen concentration were tested in a lab they thought the machine was broken, because he was off the scale. He had stats higher than anyone ever tested up until that time (this was in a BBC documentary). That's got to give you a few more yards over a middle-distance race.

deano27671 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - Thats really interesting to know! Can you remember the name of the documentary? I've read that he had the VO2 capacity and resting pulse rate of a marathon runner, and that the machine they were testing on had to be checked it was calibrated correctly, but had no idea it was that impressive! Is this just down to genes or can it be affected through specific training!?

deano27671 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - He can't win! Many posters claim he wasn't naturally as good as Ovett & Cram and that he had to work harder, while others say he was a freak of nature and at an unfair advantage! I remember reading about the need to check the calibration of the fitness machine, but never actually saw the documentary you talk of. Do you remember the name of it or how to view it? I know in his book he states that his resting pulse rate was 38, which is good for a marathon runner let alone a middle distance guy!

wayzotoichi Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - yeah you have a point, either he tried too hard and was over-competitive, or he was a freakily genetically advantaged athlete..you can't have both.

joe37374 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - coe gets overall best

deano27671 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - Exactly! I think the truth lies somewhere in between. He was a freak of nature according to Ron Clarke, and I think he was just so driven to succeed. He came back several times from adversity to retain his greatness and that would have been to hard work. For me that is why he is so great!

auto98 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - since one of the meanings of genius is "A strong natural talent, aptitude, or inclination" YOU WOULD BE RIGHT - in other words it is your definitions that are wrong

punditpete Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - can anyone remember the name of the third briton in this race. He finished last. He is just losing the lead as the clip starts. He is number 289.

wayzotoichi Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - ok, if my definition is wrong, then the online dictionary I quoted is wrong too!

deano27671 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - His name was Dave Warren.

jebjoncula Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - He ran for my old club. Epsom and Ewell harriers.

Xcchillrunnerxc Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - Coe is a monster. One of the greatest ever, no doubt.

ghai38 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - And yet his best 1500 time is almost 4 seconds slower than El Guerrouj's 3:26:00 WR. Coe, Ovett and Cram were all on the same plane - all capable of 3:29 for 1500 - yet they'd have been trashed by El Guerrouj, Ngeny and Lagat. It does make you (i.e. me) wonder.

wayzotoichi Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - yes ghai38 it also makes me wonder what Coe would have done to match an adversary achieving times like El Gerrouj can..I think even high school track athletes could shave some valuable seconds off their hard-won low-altitude PBs by training high up. I genuinely believe he would have left the UK and gone to train at altitude, after all winning meant everything to him, an everything which was slightly bigger than other people's meaning of the word.

wayzotoichi Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - You did make me think in addition to the others, Lagat is someone I would compare closely to the Coe and Ovett era, as his determination has won him 1500 and 5000 metre golds. That sort of double is a class apart. El Gerrouj, Ngeny..damn it would be like the ultimate Rocky Balboa plot of athletics. If only Coe were fifteen years younger..or more!

wayzotoichi Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - totally

deano27671 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - For a start the attitude towards & opportunity for fast times in the early 80's was completely different to that of the late 90's. The pace making was often appalling during the 80's & it was more important to win than set fast times. Coe had perhaps 3 or 4 planned attempts at 1500m & Mile in his career, whereas EL G seemed to attempt it 3 or 4 times a season, helped with a band of dedicated pacemakers from his own country that gave him exactly the pace he wanted.

deano27671 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - I tried posting this quite a few times, so it might appear on here several times! Sorry!

deano27671 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - When Coe asked for 3 laps of 56 secs in 81 he was given 52, 57 and 59! No one was capable of taking him through 1200m in the 2:48 he wanted, so he had to run the last 500-700m on his own. Secondly, 2 advancements in track surfaces in 91 & 96 meant that a 1500m time after that was c. 1.2 seconds faster.

deano27671 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - Thus the 3:29.7 that Coe ran in 86 (at 30), in which he stumbled at the bell (costing him c.0.5sec) & should have been a new WR in around 3:29.2, would be worth approx 3:28.0 on the tracks that EL G and Ngeny were afforded in the late 90's. Thirdly, Coe ran just 8 1500m or Miles between 78 and 83 (not including the Olympics), fewer than EL G ran in a typical season! Had he ran the event more frequently then he would have had a much higher % of achieving a time more indicative of his ability.

deano27671 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - Be in no doubt, if any of those 3 were running today, they would still be favourites for the major medals. Wayzotoichi is correct in saying that had Coe been around in EL G's time or vice versa, he would have adjusted his training to be running right up there with him. I have to say I am a little sceptical of some of the performances set in the late 90's, during the era when EPO was undetectable.

deano27671 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - How many of those athletes setting ridiculously fast times at distances from 800m to 10000m were still able to repeat them post 2003 when a reliable test emerged!? I'm not saying that all performances from that era are suspect, but the rate of increase in performance was far more rapid at that time than during any other.

deano27671 Says:

Jul 20, 2008 - Moreover, if Coe could run 3:29.2 at 30, then with the right pace and opposition he should have been able to run at least a second faster earlier in his career. That brings us to 3:28.2, which is worth c. 3.27.0 on modern tracks. There is a lot of evidence to support the fact that Ovett, Coe and Cram were all capable of sub 3:29, and anyone who just looks at P.B's and thinks that EL G is worth 3.5 secs better than those 3 is very naive.